I just don't have much of a tolerance level for the dismissive way immigrants (all of them!) are referred to ('all these East European immigrants flocking here etc' - Poles of course aren't East Europeans, nor are they one entity, but consist of individuals).
And I'm afraid I don't buy the argument that that's how 'ordinary folk' talk and think like. Some do, some don't. Those who do - 'ordinary' or not - are in some way bigoted or prejudiced to an extent that I find distasteful.
The most tragic part is that there are so many reasons why New Labour deserve a hammering and the one reason, which doesn't qualify as one is Brown calling a bigot bigoted (in private no less!).
"There is no life on the dole for people any more, if your unemployed you've got to go back to work at 6 months"
You'd think this piece of right wing populism would be worth mentioning...but hey what the hell...no mention of where the job will come from or the lazy bastard implication of the statement...
Actually funnily enough he wasn't even that bothered she was a "sort of bigoted women" (as he actually called her)...he was far more concerned about the party machinations that placed her in front of him...
"They should never have put me with that women, whose idea was that?"
Image and spin...'bout sums up the moronic level of this election...
Just want to say that I think you made a good series of comments on the bigotry thingy in the Guardian. I heard about it when I was stuck in the traffic yesterday and I must say it made me think so much higher of Gordon Brown. The media spin is just ludicrous: This is how upset people are and this is what Brown should have done and this is what will happen now in the election campaign as a consequence of the bigot gaffe … blah, blah. And like you, I think he should not have humbled himself, but stood by his right to a personal opinion. The lady was out of order for a labour supporter; more fool her.
In Sweden you can hear politicians take pride in using GPS and G knows what to inform their voters of their whereabouts every minute of the day, and see it as a first priority to be available for everyone who feels the need to exchange words with them on ‘important’ matters. You could laugh if it wasn’t so depressing. One politician said he would never vote for a candidate who he couldn’t follow closely (and closely is used in a literary sense). Guess what software he is using. It is a crazy world, politics. I wish we will enter a new era with a more mature view of politics. As it is, it’s becoming more and more juvenile. Anyway, I suppose that we are domed like Sisyphus to keep rolling that stone uphill. Take care. /Ellymiranda
Some of the criticism levelled at Mrs. Duffy has left a much worse taste in the mouth than her own comments, which seemed rather innocuous to me (perhaps i've lived in Poland too long.)
I've got absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with her but it is out of order for so many people to dismiss her as a 'bigot' or 'Daily Mail' reader.
Lazy, knee-jerk labelling which reeks of snobbery, with a twist of ageism thrown in for good measure.
Some have been kind enough to say that she is not a bigot but that she is has merely been misinformed by the xenophobic media. Condescending crap.
I don't believe in a lot of sob stories about the 'white working class' but the woman in question here is not a lazy benefit scrounger. She spent her working life as a public servant, looking after disabled children.
This itself does not make her a saint but it sure as hell gives her the right to raise an issue without being dismissed and sneered at.
To me she came across as someone who cares about her local community and is worried about its future. She came across as Old Labour.
Will the black man who raised the same issue during the leader's debate be labelled a 'bigot'?
France, Germany and other EU countries chose to allow limited immigration from the new EU members rather than open the door completely. Do people in Poland see these countries as more anti-Polish than the UK? No. They fully understand why they chose to do so.
The reaction of Mr. Brown and a lot of pseudo-progressives towards Mrs. Duffy, a former low-paid public sector worker and life-long Labour voter speaks volumes for the way that mainstream left-wing politics has disappeared up its own arse. It needs to get out of its own arse quick because it is really needed right now.
A final irony is the fact that if you really want to see ignorant comments about central and eastern Europeans, you only have to look as far as liberal 'national treasures' such as Stephen Fry.
Poles, Slovaks etc.. have been acceptable targets of jokes and comments which people wouldn't dare make about blacks or Asians.
They are all dour, homophobic, fantatically religious workhorses, fit only for menial labour. Until a woman in Rochdale raises the question of immigration, when they suddenly transform themselves into persecuted, disenfranchised, huddled masses.
I think she is bigoted. It's an obvious truism. She may 'care' about her community etc, but I'm afraid that comment of hers was bigoted. It was very ill-informed and bigoted.
And by the way, I'm actually amazed at how restrained Gordon Brown was in the aftermath. Remember, he thought the mic was off; he could have said anything (that effing c of a woman etc...).
So, far from this showing some kind of 'liberati' contempt for 'ordinary people' (I still don't buy the argument that she represents ordinary people) and his tendency to 'bullying', he showed unfathomable restraint (perhaps I'm deducing too much from my own erratic ways though...).
@Lester,
I think that's perceptive, but then isn't that what people want? If Brown (or anyone) refused spin, he'd be labelled a weirdo who doesn't engage with the public.
What really bothered me was his apology, too.
@Elly:
I'm not sure whether the maturity you talk about will return to politics. What I'm hoping for here is some electoral reform, which will make the two-party state (and in particular the Tories) outdated and unusable. It would be a small, but valuable step in the right direction.
6 comments:
A storm in a teacup no doubt, but on what basis do you label the lady in question a bigot?
Hi Czarny,
I just don't have much of a tolerance level for the dismissive way immigrants (all of them!) are referred to ('all these East European immigrants flocking here etc' - Poles of course aren't East Europeans, nor are they one entity, but consist of individuals).
And I'm afraid I don't buy the argument that that's how 'ordinary folk' talk and think like. Some do, some don't. Those who do - 'ordinary' or not - are in some way bigoted or prejudiced to an extent that I find distasteful.
The most tragic part is that there are so many reasons why New Labour deserve a hammering and the one reason, which doesn't qualify as one is Brown calling a bigot bigoted (in private no less!).
"There is no life on the dole for people any more, if your unemployed you've got to go back to work at 6 months"
You'd think this piece of right wing populism would be worth mentioning...but hey what the hell...no mention of where the job will come from or the lazy bastard implication of the statement...
Actually funnily enough he wasn't even that bothered she was a "sort of bigoted women" (as he actually called her)...he was far more concerned about the party machinations that placed her in front of him...
"They should never have put me with that women, whose idea was that?"
Image and spin...'bout sums up the moronic level of this election...
Just want to say that I think you made a good series of comments on the bigotry thingy in the Guardian. I heard about it when I was stuck in the traffic yesterday and I must say it made me think so much higher of Gordon Brown. The media spin is just ludicrous: This is how upset people are and this is what Brown should have done and this is what will happen now in the election campaign as a consequence of the bigot gaffe … blah, blah. And like you, I think he should not have humbled himself, but stood by his right to a personal opinion. The lady was out of order for a labour supporter; more fool her.
In Sweden you can hear politicians take pride in using GPS and G knows what to inform their voters of their whereabouts every minute of the day, and see it as a first priority to be available for everyone who feels the need to exchange words with them on ‘important’ matters. You could laugh if it wasn’t so depressing. One politician said he would never vote for a candidate who he couldn’t follow closely (and closely is used in a literary sense). Guess what software he is using. It is a crazy world, politics. I wish we will enter a new era with a more mature view of politics. As it is, it’s becoming more and more juvenile. Anyway, I suppose that we are domed like Sisyphus to keep rolling that stone uphill. Take care. /Ellymiranda
Some of the criticism levelled at Mrs. Duffy has left a much worse taste in the mouth than her own comments, which seemed rather innocuous to me (perhaps i've lived in Poland too long.)
I've got absolutely no problem with people disagreeing with her but it is out of order for so many people to dismiss her as a 'bigot' or 'Daily Mail' reader.
Lazy, knee-jerk labelling which reeks of snobbery, with a twist of ageism thrown in for good measure.
Some have been kind enough to say that she is not a bigot but that she is has merely been misinformed by the xenophobic media. Condescending crap.
I don't believe in a lot of sob stories about the 'white working class' but the woman in question here is not a lazy benefit scrounger. She spent her working life as a public servant, looking after disabled children.
This itself does not make her a saint but it sure as hell gives her the right to raise an issue without being dismissed and sneered at.
To me she came across as someone who cares about her local community and is worried about its future. She came across as Old Labour.
Will the black man who raised the same issue during the leader's debate be labelled a 'bigot'?
France, Germany and other EU countries chose to allow limited immigration from the new EU members rather than open the door completely. Do people in Poland see these countries as more anti-Polish than the UK? No. They fully understand why they chose to do so.
The reaction of Mr. Brown and a lot of pseudo-progressives towards Mrs. Duffy, a former low-paid public sector worker and life-long Labour voter speaks volumes for the way that mainstream left-wing politics has disappeared up its own arse. It needs to get out of its own arse quick because it is really needed right now.
A final irony is the fact that if you really want to see ignorant comments about central and eastern Europeans, you only have to look as far as liberal 'national treasures' such as Stephen Fry.
Poles, Slovaks etc.. have been acceptable targets of jokes and comments which people wouldn't dare make about blacks or Asians.
They are all dour, homophobic, fantatically religious workhorses, fit only for menial labour. Until a woman in Rochdale raises the question of immigration, when they suddenly transform themselves into persecuted, disenfranchised, huddled masses.
Czarny,
I think she is bigoted. It's an obvious truism. She may 'care' about her community etc, but I'm afraid that comment of hers was bigoted. It was very ill-informed and bigoted.
And by the way, I'm actually amazed at how restrained Gordon Brown was in the aftermath. Remember, he thought the mic was off; he could have said anything (that effing c of a woman etc...).
So, far from this showing some kind of 'liberati' contempt for 'ordinary people' (I still don't buy the argument that she represents ordinary people) and his tendency to 'bullying', he showed unfathomable restraint (perhaps I'm deducing too much from my own erratic ways though...).
@Lester,
I think that's perceptive, but then isn't that what people want? If Brown (or anyone) refused spin, he'd be labelled a weirdo who doesn't engage with the public.
What really bothered me was his apology, too.
@Elly:
I'm not sure whether the maturity you talk about will return to politics. What I'm hoping for here is some electoral reform, which will make the two-party state (and in particular the Tories) outdated and unusable. It would be a small, but valuable step in the right direction.
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